Leafs Down, Matthews Out

Hosts Anthony and Anthony discuss the Leafs unraveling, Matthews' injury, and the sad state of the team

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Yeah, exactly. It's like, what are you guys even doing? But like I just c I still can't believe they didn't defend it their their superstar. Like that's just I don't know, that's just really disappointing.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Let's see the ball again. The burning is coming out.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Thanks to the scope. Welcome back to another episode of the Six on Ice podcast. I'm one Anthony, Anthony Carboni, and Anthony William is joining alongside me today to, you know, do the eology for the uh Toronto Maple Leafs. I mean, I don't know, like, I don't know what to say anymore. We've got culture problems, we've got roster problems, we've got no captain. Like, there is a lot that has gone wrong all season, and it's almost coming to an end. 13 games remaining on the schedule left, 12 points out of a playoff spot. It doesn't look very likely that they'll make playoffs, but we still have to do our jobs and talk about them, even though we might not want to. First, we gotta say what's up to Anthony. How you doing, man? Doing okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Still watching this awesome team. Uh, it's uh it's been a struggle. It reminds me of the dark days of Burke and Gonis, and then even before that, JFJ, and that was just an also series of horrible teams. But hey, at least back then we had former really good uh former star players, Gary Roberts, McGilney, and those two I think pulled their weight, but like Newendike and uh who else? I don't remember. Uh Brian Leach, I think he played a couple of games before he got injured. Phil Housley, they were kind of a little bit washed, but anyways, I don't want to date myself too much, but uh here we are.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Here we are indeed. It is March 18th, exactly one month from now. The NHL playoffs will begin. And this will be the first playoffs in nine seasons that it will not feature the Toronto Maple Leafs mathematically, of course. As you I mentioned earlier, 12 points out of a playoff spot behind the Bruins and Red Wings. Uh, very tough hill to climb if they were to even win their last 13 games in a row, they still might not even make it. So it's safe to say that the Toronto Maple Leafs will not be making the playoffs. And it doesn't look like, you know, people are gonna be happy about it, but what are you gonna do, right? At the beginning of the year, did anybody think that this would be the case? I predicted them being first in the Atlantic once again, and to see where they have fallen to now is just absurd. Don't you agree?

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Absolutely. I think everybody expected them to take a step back. You lose Marner, you're not really gonna replace Marner, maybe try to replace Marner in the aggregate, but I think the bigger focus was there seemed to be a change under the first year under Craig Barube. Uh, from teams past the Sheldon Keefe teams, they were eh good in the good offensively in the regular season, couldn't really pull it together in the playoffs. The Leafs failed last year in the playoffs as well, but they they seem to be closer to that winning culture, uh closer to that kind of playoff kind of grit and mindset, whatever you want to call it. And yeah, I I I think we were expecting them maybe a little bit step back, maybe not as many points in the standings, but still gonna be a good team, a good solid team that's gonna work their asses off. Four check, back check, paycheck to quote our former rookie, Nankey Dagra Bankin. And it just didn't come come at all uh this season. This season has just been an absolute dumpster fire uh from beginning. I guess there was two weeks between the between the the new year and the new and last year where they were really good and then back to being uh off falling off the cliff.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah, I mean it's just it's just unreal. And like like I said, nobody would have like predicted it like at all. Like if you ask me, like I said, first in the division, I thought, especially last year. I mean, maybe even like like you said, a small step back. Maybe they get third in the division, maybe they're falling to a wild card this year. Being out of playoffs by 12 points with 13 games left is something I did not expect to happen. The last time we recorded, I mean, you've mentioned this to me on the DMs that they are mid, and that's clearly the case. Four-to-uh uh two, four, and four in their last eight games since we last recorded the podcast. That night they played the Devils, lost in the shootout, then went to MSG the next night, got pumped by the Rangers in a tight game up until like the last, like, I don't know, 15 minutes of the third. And then the Tampa game, I think that's what kind of really cemented that this team wasn't gonna make playoffs. The fact that Tampa just destroyed them in the first period and they couldn't catch up since was um was definitely like the reason why they're not gonna make it now. Then they go play the Habs in an important game where the Habs are kind of struggling, and that's where you want to get your first win, and it just didn't look like they were trying in that game, lost in regulation as well. Then the next couple days they played the Ducks. We'll obviously talk about that game in a little bit because of what happened, but they won that game after you know that event happened, and then going into Buffalo, losing in the shootout. I mean, the best team in the NHL since December 9th, they go in and take them to a shootout, get a point out of it, but I don't really know if um a point is really worth it at this point when you're trying to obviously get a good pick. And then the funny thing about the Toronto Maple Leafs the following night they go into Minnesota and win in regulation. I mean, what do you even like like what is that? What is that? And then losing to the Islanders at home uh the other day, yesterday. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Like what like what do you think of this team stretch and the teams that they played? Like, like what are you on just just tell me, like, what do you think about this? Like, this is just I I I don't know what to say anymore. I really don't. I really don't. I think we're a cursed franchise.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

It's um it's just so disheartening. You come to terms with this team not making the playoffs, okay, fine. And then you're like, okay, cool. They're they have their first round pick. Oh no, they don't. They traded it last year. And okay, at least it's maybe top 10 protected that this that they usually are. Oh no, it's not. It's only top five protected. And okay, well, the leases are really bad and they're tanking and tanking. Okay, cool. They're six uh right now they're six points off of uh being in the top five, our bottom five in the standings. That's great. And then yeah, they go play Buffalo, they somehow force it to a shootout from the game from the bit of that game I saw. They seemed like pretty good. And I'm like, huh, where was this all year? And then as you said, they go play the wild, went in regulation, and they looked fairly decent that game. But again, it's like, where was this effort all season long? Is it just because Matthews got injured that you're deciding to show up? You feel sorry that you didn't stand up for him? And I know we're gonna get into that, maybe possibly right now, but it's just frustrating that this team lacks character, it lacks backbone, and they're just gonna probably, they're probably gonna finish, it'll be it would be a little leafs. They would finish, I don't know, fifth, and they will lose the lottery, and then they will go boom, go to sixth place or something, or something just that shit insane. This is this is this the luck of this team, I tell you.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

It is. I mean, this I who maybe they could even get first. Maybe it could be like the crazy leaf thing, and then they end up getting like that first overall pick. Who the hell knows? But I want to ask you a question. Like, with all the embarrassing losses all year, like what do you think? Like, which loss sticks out to you is like probably like the worst that you've seen this year. I mean, for me, I I I want to put that Habs game in November up there, like when they were they got absolutely outplayed and just outclassed by a younger team, especially like then. I don't know. For me, that's probably like that's what comes to mind when like terrible leaf losses, but like is there be has there been one that you've thought of that like and that's like how that haunts you still? That's like, oh man, like that was such a bad game. Because there's been many this year.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Honestly, I feel I can't really give one specific loss. I just for me, it's been a whole season thing. Um, how they're playing now versus how they played in like November, December, I don't really see too much of a difference, to be honest with you. Um, I don't there's not one loss that that that sticks out to me in particular. Um, yeah, nothing's coming to mind. Um what does stick out to me is the 6-4 win against the Ducks.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Yeah, which I mean we're gonna talk about right now. I mean, I mean, before we go into that, all in fairness, I mean just a random, very like unpredictable season for the Toronto Maple Leafs, and it's fortunately coming to the end for the fans as they don't have to witness any of this monstrosity of a team. But we're gonna get into the culture of this team because this Austin Matthews injury. It was announced on that game last Thursday, which was the 12th. Austin Matthews was injured and taken out for the rest of the season after Racco Gudis hit a knee-on-knee, fully intentional, by the way. There was absolutely no reason for Gudis to stick his knee out and clip Matthews like that. That was uh the dirtiest play that we could have that we could have seen from him. And the George Paros, the guy that does the player NHL player safety, gave it a maximum of five games of that he will be suspended before we get into like Matthews itself. Do you think that was a fair suspension? Isn't it insane?

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Sorry, it's so insane to me that of all the things we've seen this season, that play in particular doesn't even get an in-hearing or in-person hearing. Because at that point, it would at that point it would be six games or more uh suspension. I don't I don't understand why you wouldn't even at least offer that. If you want to go six games, sure, but at least give it an in-person hearing. What? Are you afraid that they're the team's gonna challenge it? And then you have to deal with that person, so you don't want to deal with that. Eh, we'll give him five games. Like, I I don't understand. I what comes to my mind is when Jason Spetz was on the leaves a couple years back, he got what was it like six games for his infraction. First time ever being suspended in his 18-year career. And yeah, Luciel did and got it, I think, down to four games or something, but it didn't really matter at that point. But like, I don't understand what the Department of Player Safety has against Toronto. It really seems like they're against Toronto, and I'm I realize I'm a biased Leaf Leafs fan, but uh Toronto, since Paris has taken over, the Leafs are the most spended team under his watch, and it just doesn't make sense to me that when you see this play in particular, the egregiousness of Rakugudis uh injuring a star player, Austin Matthews, gets five games. Like, come on, come on.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Yeah, I mean, the for that to be a in like a phone interview or phone uh hearing is ridiculous to me. I thought that was fully intentional that he stuck his knee out, and obviously, like that's a big name, right? That's their that's their franchise player, and obviously with a grade three MCL sprain, I believe is the th is what's causing it, something with his hip as well. Definitely will not be back until training camp. Like, who knows if he needs surgery for that? But that is like that is just an unacceptable um judgment from George uh Paros to not even give that an in-person hearing. He did actually come out and defend what he said, which was funny enough. He thought it was the right, uh, the right call uh to give him five games, which was the maximum for a phone hearing. But I mean, across the NHL, like that if it's it makes me think if that wasn't a Toronto Maple's player, that probably would have been an in-person uh hearing and he would have gotten more than five games. Don't you agree?

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Absolutely. What if that was Brandon Carlo or Riley or uh Benoit on the being raccoodus, injuring, I don't know. Pick your pick your duck. Like cut or gotier, right? Like that's that's their star guy right now, or Leo Carlson. Like I like regardless if it was a star player or not, if the Leafs was uh goodist in this case, they would have got six games minimum, six games minimum. So I I just don't understand. It just boggles the mind. And as you said, it's not like a no-name player, it's Austin Matthews, despite all his playoff or lack, lack thereof uh success, he's still a star player in the league. First player to score 69 goals since 1993. Like, come on.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

And what kind of example does that set across the uh entire NHL? Does that make other players like think like, you know what? Like in the playoffs or something, right? Like, imagine it's a really intense series and you go and try and take out like McDavid or something, and you see how what happened with Matthews in this scenario, you kind of think, like, you know what? Like, if I if it's like a goon player and they get like, I don't know, a maximum of five games, right? In the first round, they still get to play the remainder of the playoffs. It's nothing like major that gets it uh impacted there. So that kind of like ruins the like like that aspect, I think, is now players might come into it, be like, okay, you know what? Like, I'm only gonna be out. Even like the coaches, even the team could say, like, you know what, you're only gonna be out this amount of times, like like this amount of games. Like, just try and take out their best player. Which I mean, there's definitely a lot of play like guys in the league which are willing to do that. So that kind of sets a bad example across the league to not even like give it an in-person hearing.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

I think we're seeing the league kind of trend towards more of a kind of goonyer way to win, like Sam Bennett last year, perfect example, took out Anthony Stollers, had a lot of other questionable hits in the playoffs, gets playoff MVP. I I I don't I don't understand. They keep saying that they want these kind of cheap shots and these plays out of the out of the league, have no place in the NHL. Absolutely agree, but you don't discipline accordingly. There's no consistency. There's no consistency across plays. And I you you sure, you can say every single play is completely different from each other, sure, but there should be like a gradient. There should be there should be a a minimum and a maximum, and they and they're just not for like category of plays, and they're not even following their own their own rules. One play might get two games, one get one play might get five games. Like, where is the consistency? It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense at all.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

And now I want to talk about like the actual leafs themselves. I mean, let's think about this. Your captain, your superstar, your leader gets need on need and is sitting there on the ice in pain, not able to get up. And none of the players on the ice, absolutely none of them, wanted to go take Gudis's head off. That is, to me, that is just that is poor. That's poor, that's classless. That just shows like what the culture in Toronto is. As we've seen in previous years, they're a team that is too scared to fight and too scared to step up for their teammates. And that clearly showed when their superstar gets hurt and is out for the year. If they were in playoff contention, mind you, like just think. Imagine if they were they were where they were last year, first in the division. They just want to they're they just need to collect points, clips of the vision, and their superstars out for the whole season. Like, where is the the response from the team? Where is Nylander? Where is Riley? Where are those guys? Like, like you gotta take that guy's head off. Kneelander was saying in the media that he didn't even see the play, but literally he's waving his arm up in the air calling for a penalty. Like, dude, you just lost, like, that's your boy right there. Like, that's your brother, right? Like, they're like that team you uh as a team, you have to be united. It's a brotherhood, and you have to defend and back up your teammates whenever shit hits the fan. And that right there was a perfect moment, and that just showed every single fan, coach, any other NHL player, whatever, that the these like this team is soft and they have a terrible mentality. And because that was just that was just disgusting to see nobody step up for their captain. And that should just really show you what the culture like is in Toronto, right there for me, because that is that is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Absolutely agreed. Let's say you didn't see the hit. Fine, you see your captain has a pile of bricks, grab the nearest duck, start beating them up. It's not that complicated. It's not that complicated. I and really, did they nobody like to your point? Kneelanders like I didn't see it. Like you're calling for a penalty. Like, come on, you saw it. You just didn't want to get in because that's just not who you are, but it should be who you are. Like when you look at other successful teams in cultures, Panthers, Avalanche, even the San Jose Sharks, uh, they go to war for each other. It's you can clearly see, yes, this is a team. It seems in Toronto we're just a collection of perhaps well, we used to be, but uh collection of insanely skilled players, and that's all we are. We're never we're never greater than that. And it's really frustrating. We see it year after year, and I think this game is just like the the cherry on top. Your captain, the guy who led an Olympic team to their first gold medal since the 80s, I think it was, or something ridiculous, 1987. Just and you just don't stand up for him. Like, come on. Like, what's even more aggravating is uh the whole game, the the leaf were getting like so much money taken from them, and they turn around and they win the game 6-4 in regulation. It's almost like they felt guilty. Like, I I don't understand. Like, it's just appalling.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah, it's it's ridiculous. Like, if the fact that nobody was in there to take Gudis's head off is just ridiculous. That guy should like have not been walking after that, as cruel and vulgar as that is to say. Like, that's how y it should be. Imagine like that was Darcy Tucker's team or like Taidomi's team. Like one of those guys saw that, like, there would literally be the police like come into the building to like stop this because that's how like serious that is. Like, that is just that's what it means to be a team is stepping up for your your your teammates, the team the people that you travel with, you hang out with, your brothers with. And to see like the lack of urgency to go after the ducks players and fight them, and you know, they just took out your captain and you're gonna give that shitty response and not even do anything. And oh, I didn't see it. Like, that's bullshit, man. You're literally waving for a penalty and you don't go up there and whack the player in the face. Like, that's just like, excuse my language, but that's just ridiculous. And it just it just pisses me off so much. And that to me, that right there just proved to me that the culture is terrible and they don't deserve to make playoffs. That is not a hockey team that I want to see in the playoffs because they don't deserve it, if you ask me. They don't deserve it.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

They don't deserve it at all. And if that was Tucker or Domey, they would and they were on the bench, they would have jumped off the bench. They would have they would have ran good as for the boards. It's just such a night and day culture. Um, comparing past teams. Like even if I think about the Phil Kessel and Dylan Vinuf uh era of hockey, I think one of those two, or not Kessel, but like Vanuff, Colton Norse, certainly, one of them would have stepped up probably then and there and would have like clocked Goudis. It's just for whatever reason, this team just does not want to play the way of hockey that is going to be conducive to success. Just it's just boggles the mind. And Riley accepted responsibility. He's like, Yeah, I should have, you know, stepped in. I think he and he had a fight in the in the aisles in the islanders game. A little bit too late there, bud. Too late.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

A little bit too late, and he got destroyed. You clearly know he's not a fighter. Like that was that was brutal. But March the 30th, mark it on your calendar because that has that is the next time the Leafs face the ducks in Anaheim. And if I don't see Michael Pizzetta in the lineup or I don't see Dakota Joshua in the lineup, I had a big response for your your captain being out for the year. Like, that's to me, like any team is just gonna walk all over you. So mark mark that on your calendar. That is a must, a must-watch game. I believe that game is at 10 p.m. So stay up a little late if you gotta watch. They're hitting their California road swing. So just be ready for that game because that is gonna that hopefully should be a bloodbath.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Because we're like, but what are we gonna see though? We're gonna see like an organized, kind of staged fight. Great. Like I would have I would have expected the Leafs, how we've seen them kind of push back, maybe a couple face washes, a couple of you know, slashing on the shin pads, and then the question would be or the talking points would be, wow, did the Leafs do enough to defend Matthews? Obviously not. But I think that's what this group was probably gonna do, or we would we would have expected the group, but they did absolutely nothing. And now they're gonna go into this game on March 30th. What dress Pazetta, yeah. But how about organized fight off center ice off a puck drop? Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

No, what's what should happen is the first play on the ice, as soon as you see goodist, just hit him, go after him, cross-check him, drop the gloves, just do something. I don't care if you get suspended, like the season's over as it is. Go do something. You gotta stand up for the logo. You have as a player, when you make the commitment to play for team, you have to bleed the logo. And that to me is what these players have not done. I have never seen Neilander do that. I've never seen Martinder when he was here do that. I mean, I haven't seen Tavaris do that. I have not seen the Captain Austin Matthews do it. You need to bleed the logo and go in and defend your the pride of your team, your player, but the pride of your team. You think that everyone, like an original six franchise, a franchise, a successful franchise winning 13 Stanley Cups and having all these amazing players. Now they're just going to be one of the laughing stocks, and they already are, but they'll even make themselves a worse laughing stock in the NHL if they don't do something on March the 30th in Anaheim. You gotta go beat the shit out of Rakogudis, the guy that took out your captain, the guy that ended his season, and who knows, man, a bad injury that. Like that to the knee, you might not be the same player after that. Those injuries are very tough, especially on the knees, especially on the knees. So that had there has to be a response from this group on March the 30th. Or if you ask me, like that right there in the offseason, do you think a player is going to be like, you know what? That team's got a great culture. I should go sign there. Not in the slightest. Because if that happened to me, nothing's going to happen. No one would back me up. Unbelievable. A culture, the culture needs a change in Toronto.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

They just feel as you as you as you said, embarrassed. Uh Easton Cowan got into a fight later that game, but he's your rookie. And also before the Matthews play, Brad Kagudas had like a very dangerous hit uh on Cowan, and nobody came to defend Cowan then. So it's you're leaving this up to your rookies. You're leaving this up to Pizetta or Steven Lorenz or I guess Lawton when he was here. Like, who are you like? You're right. You need to like bleed the logo. Uh the only star player on the lease that kind of that that does that, I would say, is Niges. He hits, he can fight, and he's willing to like back up your teammates. And he's like the only player. When it's only one or two guys, eh, where's where's the incentive? But if it's everybody, if it's your captain, if it's your like leaders on that or veterans on that team, Riley, Nielander, Tavares, who are walking the talk, then yeah, there's an incentive for the whole system to play that way. And we just don't we haven't seen it from any any of them.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

I can't stand Nielander anymore, honestly, man. I think that contract was such a big waste of money. Sure, he can put up points when he wants. He doesn't do it when he's at uh when he's asked. He does it when he wants. And he doesn't he has no drive when it comes to shit like this, like we saw putting his hand up, complaining for a penalty. He has no motivation and no drive to actually win. He just wanted his paycheck, he got his bag, and that's all he is was looking forward to. So if you ask me, like I think the first person superstar that should be traded is Neilander because I don't like his vibe. I don't like the idea of him being on this team when he clearly doesn't bleed the logo, he'll just do whatever he needs that benefits him and not the team. That's not a team player, if you ask me, especially not defending your captain, your captain.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

It's it's really interesting. I feel out of all the superstars in Toronto, Neilander has almost the mentality to deal with the media. He doesn't seem to let to let the media affect him. He just is like, oh, another game. Cool, great. He seems to do he seems to play whenever he wants. He wants to show up. Okay, I'll show up this game, pod two goals, cool. Uh, not gonna play defensively. You want me to go into the corners coach? No way, not doing that. Like it's he seems to play his own kind of style above hockey. It's opportunistic offense, very little defense, which is okay, but you're not Kucherov. You're not scoring like, what is he, four hundred point seasons in a row? Like, you're not Kutarov, buddy. Sorry, you can't get away with that.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Yeah, you're you you're not even like putting up those points. You can't get away with just slacking off one of those games. Like, I don't even know. Like, what are Neilander's stats right now? I'm gonna like look look it up and see what he's at. I don't think he's he's at what 63 points in 52 games. Like, really, really, dude? And you're trying to like you're trying to play on your own terms when your team's fighting for like not I mean, not even fighting for a playoff spot anymore. But I mean, like, Jesus, like how can you have those numbers and just decide when you want to try? Like, that's ridiculous. You're not dominating games, you're not taking over games, you're just you're just a good player, if you ask me. So I feel I feel like to me, like that, like something's got to change with Neolander if the team wants to change the direction, and all the superstars, right? Because I mean, even Matthews back, he did have that like suspension with Dalin, but like since then, like it it seems like that like the the room and the culture of the Toronto Maple Leafs, like it's okay to see that happen to one of your teammates, like even Solars earlier in the year. He defended like himself, and like like where was my where was my backup there? Like he comes in from like I spec coming from a cup winning Florida Panthers, by the way, rem mind you, to now coming into this kind of team, like you're like, what the hell? Like, where where's like the the team pride and the passion for your teammates? Right? It's just I don't know. I feel like that's like Toronto has to take care of that problem if they want to do anything in the next years, would you say?

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Yeah, and I think it starts at the top. I think you have to get rid of Trey Living, I think you have to get rid of Barube. For whatever reason, they this team isn't built to play Berube kind of hockey. And really, I think the direction of the NHL is kind of more going towards a speed game, anyways. Like the Panthers play kind of a grittier style, but they're also very fast. They're they're on you in the corners immediately. The Leafs don't have speed. They kind of went to the other end of the spectrum where there's just a bunch of big, big dudes, and it's like, great, but you can't skate, can't move the puck. What are you gonna do? So I I think it starts, I think it starts with uh Trey Living and Berube being let go in in the offseason, and then you what get Pete Debor maybe? He seems to he's worked with superstars. He see he's been at least to the third round like several times. I I I mean, I think any coach would be an improvement over Barube um for this for this roster, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Yeah, I see Pete De Boer taking over Barube's spot, but you know who I would see taking over uh tree spot, and it's been rumored, uh Dark Armstrong from the St. Louis Blues. I mean, he did just step down from Team Canada, but I feel like there there has been rumors uh circulating that he might leave at St. Louis, so who knows? Maybe he ends up in Toronto one day. But the blues it's just an unreal, it's just an unreal season that no one thought would happen. And to see what happened to their captain this late into the year, if they were in the playoffs in a playoff position, like what do you even say? But now that they're not, I mean, still like the a message should have been sent to the other team, like don't for players, don't don't do that ever again. Like, but guess we're gonna see uh what happens on March the 30th. Like I said, market calendars 10 p.m. Eastern. So if there's anything you want to add before we move on, no, I think we're good. So I want to talk. Well, let's talk about Bo Jeroul. I don't even know how he says his name properly, but he he's looked like a bright spot for this uh this Leafs team. He comes in out of nowhere, he's played I don't know how many NHL NHL games in his career, right? The 70 games, right? He's an NH AHL stud. He comes in and in his like first game, I what he what was his first game against the Ducks? That was the Matthews game. That was his first game, and he scored. And then obviously played the Buffalo game, didn't get a uh a goal, but two goals in Minnesota. I mean, he looks like a a bright spot for this team. 26 years old, maybe he's starting to hit his peak now. And I mean, him coming into the a team that's struggling and doesn't have like the obviously like the pieces to go into a like a playoff spot or fight for the playoffs. So it gives guys like him a chance to step up, and he certainly has, don't you agree?

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Absolutely. A recent article on Bogrew, uh, one of the only bright spots of this season. But yeah, he's played 65 games uh before playing for the Leafs, uh, all in Anaheim, but he's been a big like HL player and a 15-goal uh AHL scorer uh in his career. He had a bit of a breakout season this year with the Marleys, 27 goals, 23 assists in 54 games. I think he's our he is I think he's our new McUh Bobby McMahon. Um McMahon broke out around the same age, 25-26. Uh and McMahon is doing amazing in Seattle. Four goals, two assists, and three games. That's love that for him. I I do. I just sad that he's no longer on the leaves. But um yeah, I I think Gru has potential to be our Bobby McMahon, and that would be great. That would that that would be great. Uh but Toronto will find a way to wreck him, I suppose. Or trade him.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Yeah. Well, I guess I mean, yeah, that's a bright spot for them, especially at center depth as well, with Tavares maybe potentially uh, you know, retiring in the next couple seasons. Obviously, his play is dipped down, so maybe that's a great you know spot for them to be in if he was to um grow into a great player. I think that would be a great great for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

I I think, yeah, I think Tavares can go down to like a third line center role and move Gru to a second line center or Quillen or whoever you want to like you actually have to have to play your rookies to see what you have, but I'm sure in the organization there's probably a center depth that can play some second line minutes uh next season for the Leeds and give Tavares probably a third line role where he put move him up and down every so often, but I think he's kind of a on a contending team, Tavares is a third line center.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Exactly. Now I do want to touch upon the new, like the I guess the got the new additions for other teams, former Toronto Maple Leafs. I want to talk about Scott Lawton and Bobby McMahon and how they're doing in their new in their new teams. I mean, Nick Wah, obviously a depth player playing for the Avalanche, not going to get as many points, but to look at see how McMahon and Lawton are doing with the return that the Leafs got is insane. You already mentioned earlier Bobby McMahon, four goals, two assists, six points in three games. He is hot right now. He is hot right now for the Seattle Kraken. A great pickup, especially for their whole playoff hopes, getting themselves back into the playoffs, having a guy like McMahon, like he sniped, he sniped a goal on uh Vassy the other day. It was I was like, what? Where where was this in Toronto? He was looking like a real stud there. And then looking at Scott Lawton's stats as well, he's at a point uh he's at three points in uh six games, two goals and one assist. Yeah, like he's like a depth piece for the LA Kings, who are also in the same spot as the uh Kraken. But those two guys, like the way like they're they're playing for these their new teams, like they look really good. They look really good and they're fitting in nicely, especially Bobby McMahon. Like, who knows? Maybe the Leach could sign Lawton and McMahon in the offseason, but with the return that they got for those kind of players and to see how they're doing on their new teams, does that like does that question like everything that they've done throughout the trade deadline?

SPEAKER_00 31:59

I think so. I think it's evidence that Trey Living has to be let go. I think his response, because I think one of the first questions post trade deadline was Um, what happened? Why did you only get a conditional second for Lawton after you're paying a first and uh Grabancan previous year? Oh, it was the market. This was like, come on, you got a you got a first for Wah. Like you get two seconds for for Lawton, a first for Lawton, two seconds or a first for for for McMahon. Like it's just abysmal trading, just abysmal. Um I don't understand. It's almost like they waited too long to make a decision. Okay, yeah, we're gonna be sellers, and you could have made these deals a week, two weeks before the trade deadline, before the madness kicked in, and and you didn't do that. You didn't do that. And for me personally, um if you could somehow fuse Tray Living and Dubis into one one GM, I think you would have a pretty good GM. Trailing's contracts have been, by and large, pretty decent. Tabar's absolute steel. Nice, pretty I don't think nice really took a discount necessarily, but it's fair value. Uh Dubis' contracts, that's been beaten to death, uh overpaid on the superstars, et cetera, et cetera. But where Dubis excelled was in trades. Um, like Jake Muzzin, that was a good trade. I even liked the Ron O'Reilly trade because he also got Jake McCabe. And I mean, um Lafferty was a good piece of that uh at the time. Uh he didn't pan out in pan out in Toronto. Uh but some pretty good trades. Yeah, he made some bad trades like every GM does. But at the same point, um Trailing's trade so far, not very good. The Carlo trade, horrendous. I should you should be fired immediately. And yeah, I I think if Toronto wants to pivot next year, and we can talk about should they tank, should they try to be finish as high as possible. Uh, but I think you you need to move Trey Living and Breuve in the offseason.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Agreed. I would have to agree on that for sure. I think it's uh I think it's time for a change, and a big change is needed. A trade deadline where they only acquired a couple picks, one first round pick, which who knows what can happen with that, but still not a lot for the guys that are actually producing really well. And those are their best UFAs that could have gotten that they could have traded, and they're doing really well with their new team. So especially Bobby McMahon. So what are you gonna say about that? I do want to talk about the last two things. The first one being tanking. I mean, is are they even tanking at this point? Like, what's going through the minds of the Toronto Maple East? Considering like they go into Minnesota, they beat Minnesota, then they get a point against the Sabres, they beat the Ducks, right? They lose to the Islanders of regulation, and now they've got they've got Carolina, they've got Ottawa, they've got Boston, they've got they got their California road swing, and then a couple games at home, and then finishing off in Ottawa to the end of the year. But like, like what do you think is going through their minds right now? Like, are they in a tank mode? Like, if they get low enough, they could potentially get first overall pick. Who knows? Like, when you get in that spot, you have no idea. Like, look at the Islanders last year. Did anyone expect them to get the first overall pick, like where they came from? Absolutely not. So, why doesn't the Leafs try and like just do what what what should be done is is try and get to the closest possible position for themselves to get a first overall pick, which probably will be Gavin McKenna?

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Now, I I think a couple issues. Number one, I think they need to finish within the top three in order for them to like finish out of a worst case in the top five. And then yeah, the pick will be protected. So are they gonna catch uh who are the top three? Vancouver, the flames, and is it Chicago?

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Like are they guys, yeah, one of those guys or the Rangers. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Are they realistically gonna catch catch those teams? I mean, honestly, I I think you should see what you have in in the covers. So play Jacob Quillin, which they finally has been playing some more, beginning some ice time. Play Easton Cown like in the top six please more more regularly. Yeah, and Bo and whoever else. Um, I think this is a time to see who you have, but also try to fix the culture because I think let's say they finish top three, that somehow they get McKenna or whoever. Is the culture really going to be fixed at that point? I think you need to start kind of trying to fix the culture now. And I don't know how you do that. Uh the team, I think, is is what it is at this point, but you can see glimpses. Like Bo seems to play the game the right way. He's aggressive, he forechecks, uses his size. Maybe you try to try to change the culture right now. And then if you end up tanking, great. If not, well, then the pick is gonna go um go to Boston.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Yeah, I mean, like it it really doesn't make sense. Like they're starting to win games at such stupid times, like now, like the Minnesota game. Like, I don't know, if I'm the team, I get it. When you're a player, you obviously don't want to play to lose, but like I feel like to benefit your organization, I feel like like this is it. The Leafs are in the perfect situation where they should try and go get a pick like that. What if the Panthers end up doing that and they somehow get like the first overall pick? Could you imagine the scenes? Like that would be so funny, and that would be so like hockey god, like greatly funny. But I don't know. The Leafs need to figure out what direction they're going in because I don't know, maybe they think a quick retool and they'll be fine next year. Maybe they won't be fine next year, maybe they end up tanking like now, and like I don't know. They need to like figure out their situation, and it's shocking that they haven't figured that out at the deadline. Because to me, I don't think they know what they want. And clearly that's what we're seeing with some of these games that they're they're playing in.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

I mean, let's say they forfeit their pick this year to Boston, it's gonna be the six overall pick. Let's just be real. Um, that means next year and the year after they are uh how does this go again? Right. If they picked within the top five this year, um then the next two years their picks are unprotected. So we're banking on the fact that they're not gonna be as bad this year, which is a good bet. But my question is, Austin Matthews, what is he gonna look like? I assume he'll be ready to go for the start of the season, but is he gonna be the same player? Um, he hasn't since his 69 goal season, he's hasn't really been the prolific goal scorer that he has that we know him to be. Like, I I don't know. So then in my mind, if you don't tank this year, um, the next two years, there's a real good chance that you're gonna be even worse if Matthews is still injured or he's playing at 50-60 percent. So at that point, at least your picks are um I I think they get a it, I think they get to pick. I think one year it goes to Philly, the other year uh it goes to uh yeah, I think next year it will go to Philly. So I don't know. They're they're in a bad situation all around.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Yeah, I mean, now with a month left in the year, like they gotta, I don't know, they gotta they gotta figure out what they want because if you start early and you get on track of what and you know what you want, you start early, as soon as the playoffs are done, you start making your moves, you go right away. I think they could put themselves in a great position. But they need to figure that out internally, especially up with Keith Belly. He needs to figure out if he can trust Tree Living and Barube for another season. He needs to figure all that out, and there needs to be some internal discussions on what the team's future will look like because this should be a very busy offseason for the Maple Leafs. And to close it off, I mean, we got a month left of the NHL season, regular season, 13 more Toronto Maple Leafs games of the year. Any of them in particular you're excited to watch that you're gonna pay attention to besides maybe the Ducks game that we mentioned?

SPEAKER_00 39:43

I'm going to see the Sem's game uh this weekend, or I guess next weekend. So um wait in Ottawa, right? Yeah, yeah. They're in Ottawa. Yeah, so this this Saturday, sorry. Uh they're in Ottawa. Um, so yeah, be excited for that. Um, but ducks game for sure. I'm I'm more curious if they're gonna play more of their rookies and try to tank. If they try to tank, fine, but I I'm kind of curious to see like Bo, Bo Grew, and Quillin, and maybe Cowan can start showing uh his top six potential. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

How about you? How about yourself? I mean, the Ottawa games are gonna be good. They're in Ottawa. Usually it's uh Battle of Ontario is always fun, especially when Lee's fans head into Canadian Tire Center, they end up taking over the barn. So that'll be an that'll be an exciting game. Uh, I want to see how they play against like teams like the Rangers and Panthers, who are in like the same spot as them. I feel like those kind of games I'm excited to see. Lease hosting both of them at home. So I would say those ones, and obviously the Ducks game, uh, March the 30th. So a tough season. I mean, no else, no other way you can put it. If you would have told me last year, if the Leafs would be here at this time, I would laugh in your face, and so would most Leafs fans. But here we are, March the 18th, 2026. Leafs are 12 points out of a playoff spot, basically not making the playoffs, and they are gonna go into a an interesting off season. So we will see what happens, but I think that's gonna wrap up this episode. Hopefully you all enjoyed the this episode of the Six High Nice podcast. Leave a like, subscribe, tell your friends, and comment down below like on like what do you guys think of the Toronto like this year's Toronto Maple Leafs? Could this be one of the worst teams that we've ever seen in Maple Leafs history? You let us know. But we gotta figure out what to talk about on the next podcast. So we'll uh we'll have to regroup. Maybe we'll do some NHL playoff content because the playoffs are always a fun time. It's unfortunate. It would have been a fun journey for us to do this together and cover the leafs on the in the playoffs, but we're gonna have to find another way. But hopefully you guys enjoy this episode. We will see you guys next time. Take care and peace.